Season 2, Episode 5: Live with Laura Edmondson at the No Man’s Land Film Festival

Episode Transcript

[INTRO] Sarah: You’re listening to Outside Voices Podcast. We’re using our Outside Voices to redefine what it means to spend time outside and connect to nature. I’m your host, Sarah Shimazaki. Let’s get started.

Hey everyone, it’s Sarah and you’re about to listen to our very first LIVE podcast episode on Outside Voices Podcast. When I say Live I mean, I interviewed the lovely Laura Edmondson in front of a live audience (you know, via Zoom, so a virtual live audience) and what you’re about to hear is the unedited, unscripted audio from that conversation. I got to host this live podcast as a part of the No Man’s Land Film Festival, an all-women adventure film festival, that meets a need and desire to highlight and connect women in pursuit of the radical. The goal of this festival is to connect like-minded individuals who are action-oriented, wish to support a shared vision of gender equality, have a desire to experience their passions and environments through a uniquely feminine lens, and above all, love adventure.

You’ll hear my unedited thoughts about what it was like going LIVE in my conversation with Laura, but I’m here to report back that .. I actually really liked it! And I’m planning to host more live conversation over on our Instagram, that can also be cross streamed here on the podcast. So get ready for more content, more unscripted, maybe raw? Versions of me and the stories we’re telling at Outside Voices. Ok, here we go

[NO MAN’S LAND FILM FESTIVAL RECORDING]

Sarah: Thank you so much, Kathy. Thanks for the great introduction. And I'm really excited to chat with my friend Laura here, and to chat with you all, and basically do this Live podcast event, which is a first for me, because if you've listened to Outside Voices, I usually conduct interviews, one on one. And then we, you know, go through a process of creating a script and editing it. So this is kind of like a peek behind the scenes of— I was thinking of Hamilton, like “the room where it happens”, right, of the actual interview. So it's exciting to have you all join here. I was sharing with Laura on Friday, when we checked in, that there's a tinge of nervousness like, “Oh my god, I can't edit things out.” If I want, you know, if I have like, stumbles, or those filler words, of “likes”, and “ums” and all that. But I think also, it's just a really good exercise for embracing that we're humans right here behind our computers talking to each other, embracing imperfections. So I'm super excited about that. And so as Kathy mentioned, I host and produce Outside Voices Podcast. It's a production of the nonprofit I work at called Resource Media, which is where I work and I'm calling in from Chochenyo Ohlone lands or Oakland, California. I grew up here in the Bay Area. And I don't think I said that my pronouns are she/her, and just really excited to be here today. So I'm joined here by Laura Edmondson, and I'd love for her to come on and introduce herself however she'd like to.

Laura: Hi, everyone. My name is Laura Edmondson, I use she, her, and hers pronouns. I am a Black, biracial, transracial adoptee, I'm an outdoorist, so I'm a climber, hiker and camper, all different kinds of things. For work, I'm a digital educator and also a podcast host. And I also work for Brown Girls Climb as the Corporate Responsibility Manager, and I'm calling in today from Oracle, Arizona, which is just outside Tucson and is the homeland of the Tohono O’odham

Sarah: Thanks, Laura. And before we dive in, I just wanted to first ask because we chatted briefly on Friday. So I wanted to ask how your weekend has been and what's been bringing you joy.

Laura:I t's been really good. I haven't like not worked over the weekend in a while and like I did a panel yesterday so technically worked, but I just it was good to relax yesterday morning. And then today I got up and did yoga with Dom as part of the festival and I just did Tasheon’s exercise class before this, so if I'm a little sweaty or flush, that's why but yeah, I've just been enjoying my weekend quite a bit. How about you? Did you get to watch Raya?

Sarah: I did watch Raya, I watched it Friday. I was emotional. Just seeing Yeah, I honestly I knew I would get emotional seeing a Southeast Asian Disney Princess on screen. But I didn't realize— I feel like I've been really protective about it too, since I watched it. Like, I've been looking at some thought pieces and looking at who's writing it. And if there's like white folks critiquing it, I realized like, “but they don't get to say they didn't like it, because they don't understand how it feels to see that representation!” You know, so yeah, I've been pretty emotional since watching it. And it was really great. I know there's still some things, you know, some problems, I have with it. And I agree with a lot of the critiques out there that I've seen, but it's still just was really beautiful to watch that all come together. And it all came together remotely too. Yeah, yeah, they produced it all from home during the pandemic, so that was kind of cool.

Laura: Definitely gonna check it out. Yeah, watch it. But yeah, it looks really good.

Sarah Shimazaki: Yeah, it was really good. Thanks for asking. I know we were talking about how I was getting all ready with my popcorn, carving out the night to watch it. That was great. So before we Yeah, before we dive into it, I do want to go through like a couple of things. I usually say to my interviewees in a regular podcast interview. So one of them is it's not actually quite as applicable here. But one thing I always say to people, especially if it's your first time interviewing, I usually say like it's okay to restart a sentence. We don't have to strive for perfection here. The reason I usually say that is because typically we're not live. So I tell them, we can edit things out. But even though we are live, I think the spirit there is still true. Like, I think everyone here is going to be welcoming if you start saying something, and then you realize, “Oh, actually, let me start that over. Like, I want to rephrase that actually.” Right. So I think like, just making sure that you feel comfortable with that, that you don't have to like get it. All right. The first time through, I feel like it's worth saying that. Another thing I'd say is that outside voices, we're really committed to ethical storytelling. And so usually, typically, I work pretty closely with our interviewees send questions beforehand and work together on like the scripts and making sure that the person feels really good about the way their stories told. And so my amendment for this time together is that, you know, I sent you the questions in advance, and we took a look at it together. And so it's kind of a guideline, so we may diverge from there. But just so you know, like, you don't have to answer anything that's on there or anything else, like follow up questions, that come up, like totally fine, and up to you. And then another thing I say, is just reaffirming our intended audience. so outside voices, a lot of different people listen to our podcast, which is really awesome. I've actually had some people say that they've used some of the episodes in their classrooms, which is really cool. So that was never like, the original intention. But it's really awesome just to see all the different people listening and why. But I always want to tell my guests that the intended audience really is mostly for other BIPOC folks, Black, Indigenous and People of color. So if it doesn't feel right for you to take on an educator role for white folks in terms of like anti-racism and other topics, then that's not, like the burden is not on you to do so. So that's just I've told some people, some guests that and they've sort of like, relaxed, like, Oh, I don't have to explain that. So I always want to say that to you. I know that that's like a huge thing that you do on Instagram, you provide like educational resources on a lot of those topics. But here, you don't have to if you don't want to. And then really something that I love about Outside voices is that it's really about personal stories. So we'll be discussing some things and having conversations together, but I'm also really excited to just hear about your own stories about the outdoors and talk about your childhood outside and all of that fun stuff, too. So yeah, so after everyone,

Laura: It’s nice to take the educator hat off sometimes, I appreciate it.

 Sarah: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think it's important that folks know that the audience knows, like, everyone's welcome to listen, but it is intended, like for BIPOC and by BIPOC. So that's kind of always been important to me to clarify. And then. So for everyone joining if you have questions, so Laura and I do have like pretty packed questions that we want to talk about. But if you do have questions, we'll try to get to them, you can just pop them in the chat, and I'll try to try to monitor them and see if we can answer them. But all right, so do you have any questions about that Laura?

Laura: No. But can you show you something really quickly before we jump in? Yeah, you're about to hear the squeakiest chair in the world. But I'm such a fan girl of outside voices. I’ve had this sticker since OR of 2019 on my little mug.

Sarah: So I love that.

Laura: I really enjoy it.

Sarah: thank you. Thanks for showing me that. That brings me joy. I know I'd love to see more of those stickers. I should probably sell that merch or something. I gave them out to people when I saw them in person, but it's now been a whole year. So I would love to spread that out to more people. Thank you. So let's get started. And my first question for you is one that I ask everybody, can you tell us about your earliest memories outside?

Laura: Yes. So I when I think of like my first first memories outside the first thing I thought it was summer camp because I was lucky enough to grow up going to summer camp. But it actually goes back a little bit further than that. And I started summer camp like six years old, like very young. But I remember before that actually like spending so much time in my backyard. There was an empty lot so I grew up in like a subdivision but there was an empty lot between our house and the next one and it had just grown up the retreat. And rocks and leaves and all this stuff. And so I have very vivid memories of like going into the woods, which was like probably half acre square, and like getting berries and dirt and mud and like putting them in a bucket and mixing them all up into like some sort of concoction. And then like digging in our yard, which my parents probably didn't love, but like digging for dinosaurs, so I watched The Land Before Time, and then like got really into dinosaurs as a little kid. And so then I would like get my mom's makeup brushes. And I'd be like brushing around these rocks, like hoping they're fossils. And then I also have like really strong memories of growing up on a farm. So my dad has a hobby farm was like 2030 cows, that was left to him by my grandfather who got it from his dad. So it's been in the family for several generations. And every day after school after preschool, like that's where we would go, my mom worked later in the day. So my dad would pick us up from school about four o'clock, and then we would spend until dark on the farm with him my sister and I would feeding the cows, you know, like moving stuff around. If I was really lucky, there'd be a baby calf and I would get to feed the calf, which was really cute. So yeah, I have a wide variety of memories that were outdoors. And like that, that foster my connection to the outdoors, that don't really have a lot to do with being like outdoorsy in the way that you might see on the cover of, you know, a magazine or something. But yeah, it all definitely has built up into the way that I engage with the outdoors. Now even like, sitting in my grandfather's lap, looking out his window with his little like bird book, we would look through his binoculars and like look for red birds and blue birds. And just stuff like that are the little connections that helps me build the connection I have now two to nature.

Sarah: I love that I love the story of the makeup brushes, too. That's amazing. And I just love that. That your definition of the outdoors, at least in the stories you just shared is really just about like cultivating a sense of place with where you live and being rooted in your home really, because I think a lot of the times with outdoor recreation, it's about like exploring what's out there, like exploring the unknown. It's kind of this like colonizer mentality right of going out there and conquering a mountain or something and going to explore. And so I just love that you shared the ways that you connect to your nearby nature. And even when we talked a while back and where you're currently living. Now I remember you mentioned every day, there's like a donkey that gets walked by where you live. And just these little rituals, right that you come to expect. And you come to love about the place that you live in, and you just sit out and you observe your surroundings. I just think that's like a really beautiful relationship to have with the outdoors.

Laura: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. There's definitely a rhythm To the place where I live. Now I live like in a very rural community. And every day at like, 8am, my dog needs to go outside. So he goes outside, and he said, and he watches. And then we pull him in, and then about 1030 the donkey walks by. And then about 30 minutes later, he'd come back, then about four, three or four o'clock, the little bunny rabbits will come out about an hour after that the quails will come out and they'll like, Come and eat the little things that the bunny rabbits didn't get. And then there's like a cardinal family that lives behind here and we can see them every evening. And then right as dark settles the coyote, start howling and have a lien has come out. And so then we'll have Hubba Leno's walk through the yard. And it's Yeah, it's like clockwork every day. And it's just like, I don't even have to go outside, I can sit in the house and just like watch it all happen at the same time every day. It's really cool.

Sarah: Yeah, that sounds really grounding too, especially we're so connected to our screens, and it can be so fast paced, right, this world that we're immersed in on social media and, and the news cycle and all of that. So just to be able to, to connect with where you live in that way and to nature in that way. It sounds really grounding.

Laura: It’s so nice to be like, Well, you know, everything else is going on in the world. But like four o'clock, the bunnies are still gonna come out, like the day the Capitol Riot happened, like, quails were still doing their little parade in front yard, like all these terrible things happen. But the world is still still moving at its own pace. You know, nature is still moving at its own pace. And it's a very, very comforting thing for me.

Sarah Shimazaki: And so you grew up. You grew up in East Tennessee, right? That's where a lot of these stories come from. And so I've actually never been there. And I wonder if you could just kind of paint a picture of what it looks like and smells Like all of that for us?

Laura: Oh, yes, absolutely. So it definitely depends on the time of year you go. If you go in the spring, you'll probably catch the dogwoods. We have dogwoods everywhere. So like these little bright pink flowers, it's kind of like, what I imagined the cherry blossom bloom would be like, except, like, Southern, you know. Um, so we have our dogwood festival every year.

In the fall, my favorite color is Tennessee in the fall, it's like bright orange. There's beautiful yellow and red trees everywhere. Everyone's wearing orange, because it's like, I grew up in a football town, a college football town. So like, everybody's wearing orange on top of that, because it's our school colors. You said smells and for the first the first thing that came to mind was the biscuit festival they have every summer there's like a biscuit festival and you just go walk around downtown and people are handing out biscuits with different recipes and different flavors. And I don't know that's like a really strong memory I have from there. There's also a really beautiful river that runs through and like the river is kind of dirty, but it's pretty to look at and you can take your boat out on it or like go paddling out on it if you want to. There's a lake nearby where I grew up, what's beautiful trees, it's technically a rain forest. The Smoky Mountains are right next to where I grew up. I grew up going to that park every summer at least. And I've learned as a teenager, that it's actually a rain forest. So it's like a really humid, beautiful green lush place. And I don't know if a lot of people know that about Tennessee. But yeah, it's just a really old mountain range. And so like, they're really rolling. It's not as like striking as the Rockies to some people, but I think they're very beautiful. Can you hear me?

Sarah: Okay, sorry, I muted myself. And then it wasn't allowing me to unmute myself. So thanks, Kathy. I think I think she might have unmuted me. I'm sorry about that. I live in a pretty busy area. So sometimes the noise outside is really loud. And so I wanted to mute myself in case anyone could hear it. But thank you for I didn't know that, that that was a rain forest. That's really cool. And I would love to I'd love to visit there someday. Thanks for painting that picture for me. And I'm curious you kind of mentioned it when we're talking about where you live now in in Arizona and kind of the, the way you've been observing your surroundings and how that relationship to the outdoors really came from your childhood but what what are some other ways you feel connected to the outdoors and to nature because I know you also identify as like a climber and you know, some of these other traditional ways of being outside what are some like your favorite ways to to enjoy nature?

Laura: Yeah, um, I think the ways that I get outside probably look a lot different to how it did when I was growing up, but it feels the same. It feels so very, like casual and fun and playful, joyful, and I always know if it's feeling forced or or something then I know that I'm not like, you know, doing the thing I should be doing or doing it for the right reasons. Because I like to get outside to have fun. I know a lot of people like to get outside like push their limits and like do hard stuff and that's just not me. Um, but yeah, I enjoy rock climbing. I enjoy hiking. I went on a really beautiful hike here in Arizona a couple of weekends ago to bridal wreath falls and swaro National Park and I am you know from Tennessee we have waterfalls everywhere like you You can hike to any waterfall you want to in Tennessee and so out here in Arizona it's pretty dry but I was like I'm gonna see if there's waterfall because like it just will remind me of home. So we went on this like little hike to bridal wreath falls and it was like literally someone had take taken out a water hose and like hung it over a ledge It was like just a little tiny trickle of water. But you know, it works. It scratched the itch. It was beautiful. So yeah, those are the kinds of ways that I get outside there's a little walking trail I live right near a state park and so there's a little walking trail I tried outside the place where I live so I can walk to that and like get outside that way. The donkey does have some territory that the walking trail intersects with and the donkey is a little bit dangerous. So you kind of have to give them space but other than that it's completely safe. As you walk into like the donkey area, it's like beware of the attack donkey.

Sarah: How big is this donkey area?

Laura: I mean, it's like his little paddock but the trail just kind of cuts through His little pen, so you just have to give him some space and he's okay.

Sarah: What is the donkey’s name? Bilbo? Oh, Bilbo. Yeah, gosh,

Laura: Bilbo

Sarah: Oh, Bilbo. Oh my gosh, that is so cute.

Laura: He looks really cute. I just, you know, I'm going to just respect him.

Sarah: Exactly respect Bilbo, respect Bilbo’s home.

So let's talk about also, let's bring identity into this because it's something we like to talk about with the podcast, just the intersection of identity and the outdoors. And so you identify as a Black woman, you identify as mixed race, you identify as transracial adoptee. I'm sure there's more I haven’t named that you identify as that you're welcome to bring into the conversation too. But if you could just talk a little bit about your own relationship to these identities and how they've impacted the way you navigate the world and navigate the outdoors. You can talk about it any angle you'd like to. Sometimes people ask me about what it's like being a woman in the outdoors. And I want sometimes I want to strive away from like, just the negative things because I think there's a lot of narrative around like, okay, yes, like you pay attention to safety. And yes, sometimes you get unsolicited advice. But also, there's been ways that I really had amazing experiences with like, all women groups outside and like, wore makeup all together and wore like long dangly earrings together, you know, and just like celebrating being, like, really sharing vulnerable stories with each other. So I don't want it to just be, you know, just the negative angle here. So whatever you want to share about your identities and how it intersects with the outdoors?

Laura: Sure, yeah. Um, I was thinking about this question after we went over them together. And it's so interesting to me how the outdoors has been, like the catalyst for connection with my identity for exploration of my identity. Like, I struggle to think of ways that I've been able to, or that I've been willing to explore my trans racial identity, or transracial adoptee identity, my biracial identity, outside of the outdoors, and like that list is very short. So the things I'm thinking of are like going back to that summer camp. That is the first place that I really saw another woman of color and other biracial Black woman. In my life, I can remember it's the first place I remember seeing, seeing when and she was, she was a teenager, I mean, I was probably like six or seven, and she was maybe 10 years older than me. But something we talked about in like the transracial adoptee world is the importance of racial mirrors. And so growing up in a white family in a white community, like everyone around me was white, even at summer camp, she was the only other person of color on the campus, I remember. But just having like, that example of a Black woman outdoors was so impactful to me, as a young child like to just see myself when I was just like, oh, wow, like, you look like me, you can do this. And I can do this like, it was it was very impactful experience. And luckily, she was there for a few years that I went to that camp, so I got to have that experience for several years of my young life. And to your point about like, there are some negative experiences too like that summer camp is the first time that I ever remember experiencing overt racism from a peer, who like, wouldn't let me borrow something because I was Black. And like, I guess her parents had told her like, Don't hang out with Black kids, which is kind of messed up.

So there's like two sides of the coin. But like, as an adult, finding Brown Girls Climb, finding that community is something I never ever thought I could have. Because I had such limited experiences with people of color in the outdoors. And so finally, finding this community that I didn't really know was possible has been such a positive and beautiful experience. It's given me one of my best friends, Jael Berger, who's on who's on here with us tonight. So yeah, I've definitely had more positive than negative experiences in the outdoors because of my identity and in service of my identity trying to reconnect. Yeah, the outdoors has been where 99% of that has happened.

Sarah: That's amazing. That's great. Oh, I see a comment from Jael. “So much love for you, Laura!” So cute. I love it. And thank you for sharing that. I think a lot of the times there's this narrative that at least I hear it in a lot of white dominated spaces, or traditionally white organizations where they say, you know, like Black Indigenous and People of color, we need to get them connected to the outdoors. But for me, it's really about reconnecting, right and that there are these stories that we have in the outdoors that either don't fit a mainstream definition of what it means to be outdoors either. Or they were you know, they were severed due to colonization, due to enslavement, all of these symptoms of white supremacy. And so I love the way that you say that you've been able to really learn more about your identity through the outdoors, that there's kind of this like reconnection that happened to both who you are as a person, and then how you can connect to nature because I think, for me, like, for example, I've had conversations with my mom, I told her about my podcasts when we launched. My mom's a Filipino woman. And she, I actually wanted to practice interviewing with her. Because I was just, you know, just learning how to podcast and she was like, “No, no, no, I'm not outdoorsy. You know, I don't go on hikes and backpacking. Like you. I don't really like camping. No, no, no” you know, she didn't really feel like she qualified. But then I asked her about her childhood growing up in the Philippines. And she was like, Oh, I was, you know, I was barefoot, I was running around, I was climbing coconut trees. And she her face just lit up talking about all these experiences. And I'm like, well, that's super outdoorsy mom, you know, and, and how that just really connects to her identity, right? Like growing up in the Philippines and as a Filipino woman as an island girl, right? It's how she identifies herself. So I think that there's just these amazing stories that people can tell about even just cultural practices about who they are, where they grew up, and, and rituals that they learned in their family and whatnot, perhaps that, that connect to the outdoors. So I really appreciate that. You're saying that that's really how you learn a lot about about yourself?

Laura: Yeah, I'm sorry, I think your earring is hitting your mic. just for the sake of like, possibly reusing this audio for another thing? Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah, I’ll just take it off. There's just so long and dangly.

Laura: it’s funny the way we like categorize things as outdoorsy or not outdoorsy, because like my sister grew up doing the same things that I do, or that I was doing, like in our backyard on the farm, like the dog going camping, I don't know if she would identify as outdoorsy or not, or like say that her childhood was outdoorsy, maybe she would but yeah, it's very interesting. What is considered outdoorsy.

Sarah: Yeah, definitely. So let's get into a little bit about about your work. And so you are a digital creator, and an educator. And I just really loved all of these amazing resources that you've created on Instagram. And I actually didn't know until you brought it up on Friday that you've been doing this for six years. And so I'd love to hear a little bit more about how you first got into that work.

Laura: Sure. Yeah. So I've been an educator since I was maybe like, 15. I mean, I worked at that camp that I've been talking about. I started working there when I was 15. As a counselor, so I was like teaching little kids. And then worked at a preschool, worked at a middle school worked at another summer camp worked at an elementary school for high school and college students. Yeah, education is like, the entirety of my career basically, in a lot of different roles. But I think it was around 2015 that I made a it's an Instagram doesn't exist anymore. It was called the Terp life, because I used to be a sign language interpreter. And so I wanted to practice my skills. I was living in a tiny town, there's only one person I could interpret for. And so to keep up with my skills, I started uploading these little tutorial videos on how to spell the alphabet, how to do your numbers, like doing little quizzes where I would spell words, and people would have to try and catch the words that I was spelling. So like, help people practice. Um, so yeah, like I said, that account doesn't really exist anymore. But I did that for like, almost two years, completely separate, like compute. I was kind of embarrassed of it. Honestly, at the time, I was like, This feels kind of silly, but I loved it. And, um, a lot of people don't know about it, because I was like, kind of shy to share. But you know, it's over and done with now. So I don't try to talk about it. But um, yeah, so that's kind of how I started educating on Instagram. And then I worked I worked a lot during that time, so it kind of fell off. I started traveling and so wasn't able to really do much then. But um, yeah, I started making resources on my personal account a few years ago, so they're more like environmental base resources, talking about like environmental racism and impact of like plastic and what recycling really means. Things like that. And then last Summer, I was working for a nonprofit and had been for about three years and just like couldn't kind of stick it out, I was just getting so fed up. They weren't really handling the Black Lives Matter movement the way I wanted to, they weren't really serving our participants the way that our participants needed to be served. So ended up leaving last summer and started working for Black visions collective just part time. And as a way to kind of like fill the other part of my time started making resources, because I knew people were looking for them around, you know, anti racism and Black culture and things like that. And that's just been my work for the last almost year now. It'll be a year in June. So yeah, I've been able to make it work between that and freelancing. And then I also host a podcast, which I think we're going to talk about a little bit later. And yeah, I really enjoy it. I love the flexibility and getting to work for myself, I love being able to offer, the resources that I do, essentially, for free, everything I do is pay what you can. So that was that was really important to me, because I didn't want payment to be a barrier to education for anyone. So being able to offer the resources for free or for pay what you can, however you want to look at it and be able to build a community that way, has been a really great experience. My community online is really awesome. And I know a lot of people don't have that as a reality. So I'm very blessed. Anybody is on here listening from from my community. You rock. Thank you.

Sarah: So I think I remember a bit ago, you shared, you kind of walked us through what the behind the scenes entails. Right? Because what people are seeing is like the tip of the iceberg. And I think you said something, it takes like 15 hours per lesson sometimes or around there. Is that right?

Laura: Sometimes it can take more sometimes it can take like 40-50 hours, like I've done some really beefy ones since I posted that, that behind the scenes look. But yeah, it takes a lot of work to do the research, put the slides together. And I try and you know, cite my sources always and make sure that I'm like getting a full picture before I just say something I take the responsibility of education really seriously. So always like double checking things, things like that. But yeah, it can take a while I've had people email me or send me a DM and they're like, Oh, wow. Like, your team does a really great job or like asking you like, oh, how do you make these on Canva? And I'm like, first of all, I don't have a team. And second of all, everything is done on Instagram. I don't do anything on Canva I admiration of the people who do but that's just not my my journey. At least not yet. So yeah, it's it's a time intensive thing. But I enjoy it. I like it. And it seems to be helpful to people, which is ultimately what I care about.

Sarah: Yeah, that's amazing. Thank you for all that work. And through that whole process. What's, what are some of the things that are like your favorite parts of the process? And what are some things that are a little bit challenging for you?

Laura: That's a good question. There's like very typical, kind of like the rhythm of like, the animals around me, there's very typical rhythm, that making lesson goes through. And it's like, I find an idea. And I'm like, Oh, I bet people will know about this, I should write something on it. So then I get really excited to start doing all this research. And I'm like, Whoa, this goes way deeper than I thought it did. I can never cover all of this. I have to stop. And then I push forward and keep doing it. So I think getting that like initial spark is my favorite part because I like getting so excited about something. And then like when I actually get to share it and people other people get excited. That's my other favorite part. I like seeing that light bulb go come on for people. I like seeing people get excited or like, just just a surprise that you know, we aren't taught everything that we're supposed to know or we're not taught things accurately in school. And so like watching people relearn things, watching that light bulb, come on for people is probably my favorite part.

Sarah: Yeah, and it's such a skill. I think you do that just so great gracefully. Just, I can imagine that when you dig deep into the research, it's like, oh my gosh, I want to cover all of this and I really need to get into this part. But then it just starts to grow and grow. And then how do you distill that into slides for Instagram, and still convey what you want to say but then you don't want to shortchange it as well right by not giving an aspect of it enough time so I can as a podcaster, I can like relate to that too. Sometimes like wait, but I want them to hear the whole thing but no one's gonna listen to like a three hour podcast. Well actually there are people who listen to three hour podcasters Joe Rogan fans I guess but

Laura: I used to listen to like a three hour Gilmore Girls podcast. So like I can relate to that. Yeah, like keeping entertaining is really important because you know people have a short attention span sometimes and Instagram is not made as an educational platform. I'm just kind of like using it as one. So, yeah, there's a lot of layers that go into to it beyond just conveying information.

Sarah: Yeah, definitely. And for anyone who has really been inspired by what you've been doing on Instagram, and really been used creating these educational resources, what advice would you would you give to them for someone wanting to get started to do something similar?

Laura: First of all, reach out to me, I will tell you what I know, because I kind of figured it all out on my own and happy to help people fast track that. I would say everybody knows something that somebody that other people don't, whether it's from your own experience, whether it's a fun fact, you learned on Snapple lid, you know, like whatever it is, find something that people don't know about that you think they should and write about it. And it doesn't have to look like you know, slides, it could be a video, I don't know if you know, Marie Beecham, I believe is her name. She's another digital educator. And she makes just like straight to camera videos, which are really great. I don't even think she edits them. But they're super informative. You can make, you know, just like a regular post on Instagram, you can just post a photo and like, put all the information in the caption, it doesn't have to look like the way I do it. But yeah, get the information out there. And don't be afraid to ask for for payment for the work that you're doing. You know, like, a lot of us are doing emotional labor these days, especially a lot of us working in the education space, especially anti racist racism education. So like, don't be afraid to put your handles out there. I know, it can feel a little uncomfortable at first, but we all deserve to be paid for the work that we do.

Sarah: Yes thank you. I really resonate with a piece about everyone is an expert on something so everyone has something to share. Yeah, that's Yeah, I think yeah, I think, um, yeah, sometimes, like, sometimes there's that imposter syndrome of “Oh, you know, no, there's not really much that I have to share here.” But I found, at least on just on my own personal page, the times that I've gotten the most engagement or sometimes I start like venting about. Sometimes I can plan I started venting about something, my own perspective about something and just being outspoken about it. And people are like, Oh, wait, I resonate with that, or like, I want to talk more about that or hear more about that, you know, so even just like getting started with talking about things you're passionate about, and then watching it sort of unfold from there.

Laura: Yeah. And I would also add, don't be afraid to set boundaries for yourself, if you are like interested in getting in online education space, set those boundaries early, I have an entire list of do's and do nots for my page. And it's very clear. So if somebody violates one of them, then I can just say, Hey, you know, I need you to review those real quick. And if they do it again, then that's it. And I've had people like you wouldn't think an internet troll would actually care about boundaries. But I actually had someone come on my page and like was spouting off all this stuff. And I was just like, Hey, have you read the boundaries? And they're like, No, I haven't. If I had, I wouldn't have said that. And I was like, is this reasonable? stranger? Internet? I didn't know that they existed, but they do. So it's not for nothing. They actually help.

Sarah: Yeah, that's amazing. And it's great to have it as a place you can point people to right, like, Oh, I already wrote them out. And so here you go, you can go check it out before we engage further.

Laura: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Sarah: Yeah. And I think that kind of goes into our next question a little bit, just just this world of social media, I think there's been a lot of just a lot of conflicted feelings about it. Because right, on the one hand, it's really, at least for me, I'll speak from my own experience, because of this pandemic, you know, I'm not really able to find community in person. And so I do turn to social media to connect with people stay updated with some people to learn things, right? There's so many great resources on there. And I think at the same time, because it starts to kind of become a reality in this weird way, right? Because we're, we're not as connected to the, to the outside world, in this pandemic, it can also begin to feel actually disconnecting and maybe toxic. You talked about some people who violate boundaries, perhaps come into your DMS and start to troll you. And so I just kind of want to talk a little bit about that, because I also saw that recently, you had this amazing fundraiser, where within like, a couple days you raised, I think it was like $30,000. Right. And I don't think that that's something like that could have happened without social media. Right. And so I think also, there's just a lot of power and as well, so yeah, I just want to there that was a lot. I know. It's like a bigger conversation, but what are some of your initial thoughts about that dialogue?

Laura: we talked about this on the panel yesterday, and I actually have like a little bit of a revision to what I shared there. So I'm grateful to have this opportunity. Um, but yeah, we were talking about whether or not social media is toxic. And I was like, you know, social media is just a tool, it's like a hammer, you can hit your thumb with it, or you can build a house with it. That's not entirely true, because social media has, you know, this algorithm, it was built in the world that we all live in. So it perpetuates the systems of oppression that we all live in. it perpetuates capitalism and perpetuates white supremacy, inherently, it built into the code of that. So social media is like a tool, if that tool was built in a federal colonial white supremacist, patriarchal society. That's the caveat I want to give. So yeah, it is gonna feel more toxic for some people, because it perpetuates the systems that I was talking about. But I think that we do have a little bit more power than a lot of the social media is toxic narratives, like to, to say. So we do have the power to set boundaries for ourselves, you know, it's social media has their own terms and conditions, but we can set our own for our own internet space. And we can stick to those, you know, Twitter can ban people from saying things that they don't like, you can ban people from your page, if they say things that you don't like, you can request to see less of certain types of media. So I don't think a lot of people really realize that. But on your explore page, if you're just looking through on I'll speak to Instagram, specifically, you can click and it will say like see less like this. So I was getting like a lot of like, diet culture stuff that I just didn't want to see. And so you can click and say, like, I want to see less of this. So there's a lot more control that a lot of people might not realize that you have over your social media experience. But I also do want to acknowledge like, yeah, social media was built to perpetuate a lot of the stuff that we deal with in our, our offline lives, too. So it's not simply a tool. But yeah, it does have the power to do so much good. Like you mentioned the fundraiser, I put up on my page, right around the Capitol riot, I think it was like the day after. And it was like, Hey, you know, 2021 was awful. 2021 is starting off awful. Also, I'm gonna put my stimulus check towards some therapy for BIPOC people, if anybody wants to join, and I was hopeful that we would raise a couple $1,000 and be able to cover maybe like 10 folks getting a few sessions of therapy, and we ended up raising enough to cover 100 people. Um, and like you said, I don't think that would have been possible without social media. And I mean, it would be, but like in three days, from donations all around the world. I don't know if you could replicate that offline. It was pretty cool. It was amazing. Like I said, my community is awesome.

Sarah: Yeah, that's amazing. It was just yeah, it was really cool to see that all unfold. We were like, within a couple days, or, you know, yeah, just the way that it started so small. And then it just really grew in this beautiful way. I thought, yeah, it was really incredible, and definitely speaks to your community. And the relationships that you've built there. Something that I shared on Friday is that, you know, you're not just putting out, you're not just putting out resources, you are really engaged with your community to at least from what I've experienced, because I shared before that you had on your stories, you ask people to kind of say how they're feeling one of those sliders, you know, I'm feeling this emoji or this emoji. And I, I answered that day, like one of them, ooh, not so great ones. And you actually went out of your way to reach out to me and say, I hope your day is better, and just really, like continue building that relationship and engaging with people. And so I think that that that speaks to, when you have this need, that people are like, Oh, you know, I'm invested in Laura, and she's invested in me, and we have this relationship. And so I want to see, I want to support her and I want to see this grow. It's not just that you're not just that you're creating stuff, but you're really building relationships with people.

Laura: Yeah, a former coworker. Like told me this quote, that was like, people follow people online. And they are told that they're joining a community, but actually, they're just joining an audience. And like, joining an audience is fine. But I am so adamant about community that I'm like, I'm going to hold up my end of the deal. If I say that this is a community, we're gonna operate like a community and I'm going to check in on you at least so like, I'm still working on how to get there because it's still just like very bi directional. It's not like cross community if that makes sense. I'm still trying to work on how to make that happen. But I am trying to be as engaged with people as I can be, I mean, it is very time consuming. So I'm responding to a message. I'm sorry, but I do try.

Sarah: Mm. Yeah. And I think I think this goes really well into the last thing I wanted us to talk about, I know that we're getting close to the hour. But I really wanted us to, to unpack a little more about your podcast and your work talking about rest and self care and slowing down. And I think part of that is what you mentioned before, which is setting boundaries, especially with something like social media, where you're, you're, there's that constant need of like, I need to create content, I need to stay visible, right and stay relevant or react to something that's happening, that people are talking about something in the news and create content around it. So I think that dovetails really well into this conversation you've been facilitating around what does rest look like? And what does rest as responding to that grind look like? And so just want to, yeah, I just want to talk a little bit more about your podcast, I've listened to a couple of the episodes or watched them because I know you host them on Instagram Live. And just want to ask you, why do you think this conversation is so important, especially right now?

Laura: Yeah, that's a great question. Um, the podcast is on Apple and Spotify, if you don't want to just like, dedicate your phone to watching an hour long Instagram Live video, because I understand, you know, you want to be able to listen and do things on your phone. Um, but yeah, rest is, is incredibly important. And I can't give enough credit and love to the nap ministry and all the good work that they do over there. Because that's really what started my you know, exploration of rest and cultivating the rest practices that I have now. Which to be totally honest, I've been slipping on a little bit, but I've been trying to get back in alignment with those. But yeah, rest is incredibly important. You know, we all live in this capitalistic society that tells us that we need to be working 40 hours a week, we need to be productive, we'd be creating things, like you said, the social media. So it's just a further perpetuation of that where you've got to be continually putting out content, you've got to continually be creating, and resting, even if it's just 30 minutes a day, is a way to interrupt that cycle a way to interrupt those forces and say, you know, no, I don't have to, what's gonna happen, what's gonna happen if I don't, I gonna, I'm gonna feel well rested. I work with so get done. Eventually. It doesn't have to happen right away. All of these like self imposed deadlines and and deadlines that we set for other people. I mean, even even setting deadlines for other people are things that I've tried to pull back from. Because if I can allow people more space in their schedule, then that's an opportunity to interrupt to interrupt the cycle even further. So not just for myself, but for other people as well. And like just having these conversations with folks and seeing where their best practices come from, like how a lot of people have incorporated ancestral practices, into their rest routines. And like talking about different barriers that exist for rest, a lot of people can't rest, like taking a break is a huge privilege is a huge privilege to be able to take a break, to not have to go to a second job to not have to worry about like other people that you have to support to not have to, you know, worry about getting your needs met, for any period of time. It's a huge blessing. And I think a lot of people don't really think about it, I don't think that people realize how important it is for us, especially as BIPOC folks to, to rest because we're the ones that have felt the hugest burden from capitalism are our ancestors, the ones that were made to work, you know, as machines that were treated as machines, and so to continue to subscribe to grind culture and continue to push myself in that way. I feel like it's disrespectful to my ancestors to do that. I feel like it's on me, it's my responsibility to break those cycles. And so that's, that's why it's important to me, and getting to listen to the reasons that it's important for everyone. Everyone else that's been on the podcast, and the people that I've written in with their own responses has been really beautiful as well.

Sarah: Yeah, I couldn't agree more with a lot of what with a lot of what you said. And I also want to say, I know you know, this, that it's such an ongoing journey, right, that it's like, we might have some ways that work for us in the past. And then maybe, as you mentioned, we might be slipping up. We might need to be reminders, or we might need to shift something. And I know you recently shared that you, you realize you're you've been grinding too much and you're sort of like even though, you know, you're you have this podcast about rest, but you're like, Oh, I'm slipping up on that myself. Can you tell us a little bit more about that. I think it was just this past week.

Laura: Yeah, well, yeah, thanks for reminding me. I did want to talk about that. Um, so yeah, Black History Month, I was trying to, like, crank out all this content cuz like, I gotta get it out because it's Black history month, and we only have 28 days, like, oh, a month, I'm like, we don't only have 20 days to talk about Black history. But here I am acting like there's only 28 days to talk about Black history, like, practice what you preach sis. So I was like, trying to grind out all this content. And then this month, I was like, okay, Black History Month, we did it, we're gonna keep learning about Black history. We're gonna learn about two new people every single day. And I realized after four days that I was like, that is not sustainable. That's actually very exhausting. And I was already exhausted from last month. So we're just gonna dial it back. And we'll learn about the people that we learn about when we learn about them. And there is an abundance of time. There is no scarcity of time. I mean, yes, we all live one life. So there's scarcity and in that way, but I have tomorrow I am going to operate as if I have tomorrow and not push myself. Because even if I don't have tomorrow, what am I going to gain by getting something out a day earlier?

Sarah: Yeah, definitely. And someone asked, the name of your podcast. So it's called Let Us Rest podcast. And you can find it on, you said, it's on all the podcast platforms, right. So Apple podcast, Spotify, but also on Instagram.

Laura: Yeah, it's on Apple podcasts and Spotify. It might exist other places. But those are the two places that I put it. And then you're also on Instagram, but I know that watching on Instagram can be like, kind of time consuming.

Sarah: I really relate to that too. Just this idea of sometimes, when you when you're not meeting those expectations, like oh, I'm exhausted. But I said I would do this and this this month, right? It's oftentimes, it's you, it's something you set up for yourself, right? And so I found, at least for me, that what I've said, Okay, I'm not gonna do it, and then I'm afraid that people, other people are, why aren't you doing it? You know, you said so. But everyone I found is was like, You deserve it. It's okay. You know, and such a privilege to, to have that. But I've noticed that no one really cares, at least in my circle, when I don't. I don't meet my own, like, you know, set deadlines that I said I was gonna do, which is, again, such a privilege to have. But I think that's a really good reminder, too, that you have a community that holds you that it's going to, they're not going to say, Laura, like, why didn't you? I thought you said you were going to do this for us. You're going to create these resources on Instagram, and what the heck, you know, I'm pretty sure no one has said that to you.

Laura: Yeah, yeah, we're so glad it's your break. And I was like, Oh, my God, thank you. Because I realized I was like, thinking like, I had like 28,000 little bosses. Like, where's your work? not true at all. But I'm so used to like working for someone else. I'm like, Oh, yeah, I work for myself now. And like, this is actually a community, like I said, so like, if I say, hey, I need a break, they're gonna be cool with it. And they totally were. And even if they weren't, like, honestly, if you're a creator, and your community's not cool if you take a break. Take it anyway.

Sarah Shimazaki: Yeah, Yes, amen. And what are some of your favorite ways to rest? Sorry, I asked you right, when you're taking a drink of water.

Laura:I love the days, I don't have to set an alarm, which are most days. But I still wake up pretty early, and I make myself get out of bed. So I love the days where I can wake up early and go back to sleep, that's what I should say. Those are great. I got to start my day with some yoga. So getting to do yoga and move my body because a lot of the work that I do is sedentary, you know, sitting in front of a computer or on my phone or something. So getting to like gently move my body, especially if it's outside is one of my all time favorite things to do to rest. And, like skincare, I really love doing skincare. So I wrote this post where I was like, self care is basically like telling people to pull themselves up by the sheet mask. By honestly like a sheet mask really does do it for me. If it's not for you, that's fine, but like a face mask. Oh, I find it very relaxing. Like getting work done in time where I can like really take care of myself and like do my face and my hair and like feel really good before going to bed. That is a really, that's a really good day for me. That's really restorative for me.

Sarah: And I love what you said earlier too, about how the way that you experience time outside is sort of more about just finding joy there. So that that to me, that sounds restful, like that sounds restorative, whereas maybe some people, they go outside and they are you know waking up really early and that like some It's exhausting to go backpacking for a weekend, right? Even though I love it, and I want to get out there. I usually come back and I'm exhausted. And then I'm like, Oh my god, I have to go back to work.

Laura: You need a break From your break, huh? Yeah,

Sarah: exactly. So it sounds like rest and the outdoors for you, like that's very intertwined.

Laura: Absolutely, for sure. And I, I fully respect people who like want to go outside and try really hard and like wake up before dawn and be at the crag by 5am or whatever. Like, if that's your journey, I love that for you. I will do it with you maybe once or twice, but like, that's not why I get outside. That's not why I go hiking or go climbing or whatever else it is like I go outside to enjoy myself and to be with my people. And that's all I really need out of the outdoors. So yeah, getting Outdoors is definitely restful for me. And that's something that we explored a lot on the podcast was how rest doesn't have to look like taking a nap or laying on a couch or you know, it doesn't have to look like something sedentary or something stationary, it can be something active. If your everyday work is stationary, or like that's just the way you want to relax.

Sarah: Yeah, definitely. I think the converse of that, too, is that there are people who say that their rest is to do all these outdoor activities or to do you know, sometimes like self care activities might start to feel like a chore, right? Like I have to do yoga, I have to work out I have to go outside. But maybe what they actually what their body really does need is a nap too, right? So I think even just investigating that relationship to those rest practices is really important as well.

Laura: We also talked a little bit about, like, what's acceptable for rest. I know we're running over time. So Kathy, like cut me off if you need to, like, if you tell somebody Oh, hey, I did like some yoga this morning. everybody's like, oh, wow, good for you. That's so healthy. And you've probably are well rested. Good job. But if you tell somebody like hey, I binged the entirety of Game of Thrones over the last four days, they're probably gonna like, like, you feel judged, whether people are judging you or not, I would feel judged if I shared that it's true. That one's Um, and so like, there's different levels of acceptability of like, what is okay to do? fluoresce with what's not. And that's something that I want to unpack a little bit more on this next season of let us rest whenever it happens. So yeah, lots of conversation around rest.

Sarah: Yes, definitely. And there's been some memes going around to about different types of rest too right like, spiritual, mental, emotional, physical, because sometimes, I will determine I need a rest day. And then after I'm like, I'm so exhausted What's going on? You know? And it's probably because there's something else I needed, right. So I'm, like, I'm

Laura: thinking about the yoga class I did this morning. Like, I felt really rested. And like felt really good about it afterwards. But Dom was teaching it. So like, that was work for her. So even like doing the same thing at the same time doesn't feel restful for for the same people, you know, or for different.

Sarah: Yeah, totally. Okay so, we are a little over time. Kathy is shaking her head. But if anyone has any questions, you're welcome to either put in the chat or just come off mute? Well, actually, I don't know. Because since I was having trouble coming off, mute, maybe you can’t. feel free to ask us. We will be here. But I just want to say thank you so much to Laura, for joining me for this conversation. Thank you so much to No Man's Land for hosting us. Thank you to Kathy and Emma the whole team at No Man's Land. It has been such a wonderful time to share with you all and I'm excited. Yeah, I'm really happy that we can have these conversations and hope to continue having some more together in this community.

Laura: Yes, absolutely. Thank you everyone who listened. Thank you, Sarah and Kathy for having me. This is awesome.

[OUTRO]

Thank you all so much for being a part of our first ever live podcast! Special thanks to Kathy, Liz and Emma on the No Man’s Land Film Festival team for having me and putting on an incredible festival. 

Huge huge huge thanks and love to Laura Edmondson for chatting with me. Be sure to check her out on Instagram if you haven’t already. Her handle is @laura.edmondson and HER podcast is called Let Us Rest. 

All credits, links and resources can be found on our website: outsidevoicespodcast.com

Be sure to follow us on Instagram, @OutsideVoicesPodcast, to catch our upcoming Instagram Live conversations!

Outside Voices Podcast is a project by Resource Media, a nonprofit communications firm dedicated to social change.

Until next time.