Season 2 Episode 4: Rebuilding a sense of self together with Military Outdoors
Episode Transcript
AD 1: At Outside Voices, we believe everyone has a powerful relationship with the outdoors. That’s why we’re excited to partner with Sierra Club Outdoors for All. They’re working toward a just, equitable, and sustainable future where all people benefit from a thriving planet and a direct connection to nature-- because access to nature is a human right. Learn more at sierraclub.org/outdoors-for-all or follow them on Twitter at @SierraOutdoors.
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Charm: it was strangers coming together as if we've known each other for a lifetime. And the energy and the spirit that we all brought together, to create something powerful and memorable. It impacted me in a way that I felt like, “I need to share this. I need to share this with veterans like me that are struggling to get out or to do things.”
Amine: What happens when you go to the military outdoors program is that these people, you can present to them the good, the bad, and the ugly, and the people they are not unsure about because they've already also gone through it. And so you are being your whole self
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[INTRO] Sarah: You’re listening to Outside Voices Podcast. We’re using our Outside Voices to redefine what it means to spend time outside and connect to nature. I’m your host, Sarah Shimazaki. Let’s get started.
Narration: Welcome back and Happy new year, if it’s still acceptable to say that this late into January! And what a January it has been. We are excited here at Outside Voices to continue on with our #AmplifyBlackStories season, this time partnering with our friends at the Sierra Club. I really enjoyed bringing this episode to life-- it is all about the Sierra Club Military Outdoors program, which seeks to improve the lives of veterans and their families through connections with the outdoors and with each other. You’ll be hearing from two Black veterans as they share beloved childhood memories, their complicated experiences in and perspectives of the military, and the impact that finding community in the outdoors through the Military Outdoors program has had on their transition back to civilian life.
Charm: My name is Charmaine Denise.
Amine: Hi my name is Amine.
Narration: OK so, before we get into it, I do want to clarify that you’re about to hear excerpts from two separate conversations, interwoven into one. So, while there are certainly similarities in the stories you’ll hear, I really want to honor Charm and Amine’s different perspectives and experiences as well.
Additionally, it’s important I let you all know this episode touches on heavy topics, namely PTSD, death, war and xenophobia. Please take a moment to check-in and make sure to listen when you’re feeling well-resourced. Take good care of yourselves, y’all. Alright, here we go. Let’s hear those intros again, though, shall we?
[REWIND SOUND]
[MUSIC ON- fun, upbeat]
Charm: My name is Charmaine Denise.
Amine: Hi my name is Amine.
Charm: I am Belize-American. I am 50 years old. Single mom.
Amine: i'm African by birth, so I do consider myself Black even though I'm light-skinned, as they say. I’m also Arab, so Morrocco is the country I came from
Charm: I am a veteran. U.S army. I did 15 years.
Amine: I was a translator over in Iraq.
Narration: Now, at Outside Voices we often talk about a reconnection to the outdoors-- meaning, we all have a relationship to nature, but it may have been severed or disconnected for a variety of reasons, historical and personal. Before we learn about Charm and Amine’s journey with the Sierra Club Military Outdoors program, I was curious about what it was like growing up in a place like Belize, where Charm is from, and Morocco, where Amine grew up.
Charm: we got to spend a lot of time in the water and climbing coconut trees. My uncles would climb the coconut trees. And then because I was the smallest, they would put me on their shoulder so I could reach for the coconut. my grandmother had 15 kids. So the house was always full. And there was always a lot going on. So we were always moving and going because my grandparents didn't believe in the kids being locked up in the house. They felt that we should be kids. So we spent a lot of time venturing out and doing things that we enjoyed and sometimes things that we probably shouldn't have gotten ourselves into.
Amine: going outside in Morocco was mostly going to the beach. I remember when I was young, we went and camped by the beach. And that's what actually made me the most happiest. it was mostly just enjoying jumping into the waves. we usually stay there past the sunset. That type of renewal that you get from seeing that Sunset over the horizon and the colors in the sky. It was a deeper way of fulfilling certain things in your soul.
Charm: my grandmother and I, we would sit on the porch. my grandmother would make this bun, which is like sweet bread and cheese and tea. And we would sit out on the porch. About 4:30 or 5 o'clock, it would have been after I came back from school or the kids came back from school. Her and I had this moment where we would just sit out, outside and then my neighbor, our neighbor, would kind of like holler from her house to see if we were out there and then she would come join us and they would get into a conversation. Because I was so much younger, I didn't understand a lot of what they were talking about. But it was just the moment that I had with my grandmother, that was like, the one moment that I had her all to myself.
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Narration: Both Charm and Amine eventually moved to the United States. Against their families wishes, they signed up for active duty in the military.
Amine: For me it was like well, this is a very good thing to me. I speak Arabic fluently. And I kind of have a love for those people. I understand them to some extent. That'd be kind of a nice job of bridging the cultures between these people. It would be quite nice. And so that kind of presented itself to me and I ended up going over there and doing this unorthodox job of being a translator slash cultural advisor.
Charm: I knew that if I stayed home, my mother told me that I wouldn't be able to go away to college. And so she wanted me to stay home and go to university locally, but I knew my brothers would still be the priority. Of course, they were upset and disappointed. But yeah, I ended up leaving home at 18
My job was personnel or human resource assistant. and then I was stationed at Fort Riley, Kansas. My first duty station. I knew nothing about Kansas. Actually, my first week there, we had a tornado. Yeah, so I stayed at Fort Riley. Five years. And then, between the five years, we ended up going to war. So I went to Iraq, I was a mail courier, so I didn't go and stay. I went to take mail and come back. And then I went to Korea for a year. After Korea, I came back to the states and was stationed at Fort Jackson, South Carolina. That's where I exited the active duty component and went into the reserve component.
Yeah, I actually managed to have a baby during that time. My son was five months when I went to Korea. So I missed all of the first words, him walking, his first step, all of that.
[MUSIC ON- somber/slow]
Amine: I was there during a deadly time. And, I think looking back at it, I already think a month or two months, I already was suffering from PTSD back then, while I was there in-country. It was a very intense experience. And more so for interpreters who are coming from the United States, because at that time, you were just thrown into the deep end, you went from civilian life in America.
And so every day in-country it was a total surprise. And I'm sure it was for a lot of interpreters that were there who were not given a heads up on anything. And also the support was not there.
So that was very, very detrimental to my life in that way. And I suffered for the longest time not knowing what was I inflicted with.
Charm: And then going into the military, I'm a woman, I'm a Black woman. And so, there were those challenges. There were these expectations that I had to meet to be a part of the, you know, the club. To be accepted into the club.
Amine: some of the people I was with actually, that were inside the base that I was dealing with, look at me as the enemy. And especially, I was not having the military haircut. I have my hair like in a fro.
Amine: the military, then at that time, at least in the lower ranks, was not very culturally sensitive. It was not very open to the idea of like, “we're here, we're coming here to do a good job, which will bring about democracy.” It was about bringing the fight to the enemy. And that was very abrasive. To be around that culture and especially when you have people who are with you, who are dying day to day, you can get that loop of confirmation. It's exactly what's happening.
Narration: Amine’s experience of being seen as the enemy at his own military base, really stuck with me and it’s a perspective I’m grateful he was willing to share. We often talk about code switching, or alternating between languages and cultures, as a means of surviving white-dominated spaces, surviving white culture, white supremacy. And Amine literally found himself walking between two worlds and feeling conflicted with his role there.
Amine: I was aware of who the Iraqis are. I loved them. I went to school with many Iraqi Americans. Some of my best friends, they were Iraqi Americans. So I'm very familiar with the culture, I'm very familiar with how they behave, and so on and so forth. So when you're raiding their home in the middle of the night, you're not raiding the home of some enemy of some guy that you don't understand, or who you cannot empathize with-- you're deeply empathizing with them. And there’s crying kids and all the drama that's going on over there. And the fear that they have, because you can understand every word that they're saying. And you're also understanding the fear of the soul, because you are on that side too, because you're also receiving bullets, being shot at just like they are. So it was kind of very, very kind of an intense experience, especially with no training and not a lot of support that you get.
Hopefully, our transparency of this generation will allow us to be doing what America does best, which is to self correct. And to do it as fast as possible. So that's, as uncomfortable as it is for me to share, it is in that spirit that I'm sharing.
Narration: I have to admit, as someone whose ancestors come from countries with, for lack of a better term, a complicated history with the U.S military -- namely, Japan and the Philippines-- I can’t help but mourn for communities of color abroad affected by the military industrial complex and that is a topic that deserves way more unpacking. And, AND, I fully believe our veterans need and deserve as much support as they can get and more, when they return home and try to transition back to civilian life. Too many veterans struggle with post-traumatic stress disorder, or PTSD, depression, and self-harm, to name a few.
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Charm: So prior to me coming back, my brother, who is two years older than me, drowned in Belize. And I remember having to go with my mother to identify the body and make arrangements for the funeral and the obituary and all that. And I remember going almost into like soldiering mode again. I knew I had this task. And so, I made sure that it got done. And in that moment, I didn't necessarily grieve. It wasn't till later that I started coming apart at the seams. My son went off to college. And slowly but surely, I started seeing signs and symptoms of PTSD, but I didn't know necessarily what that was and what that was for me. I started seeing a therapist and then he helped me to identify that it’s PTSD and some of the symptoms that I was experiencing was due to trauma.
I found myself in a dark space, feeling where I couldn't, I didn't want to get up, I didn't want to eat. At the time, I was taking online classes and I didn't have the energy to log on. And so I started seeing a new therapist here and then she diagnosed me with depression. So it kind of helped me put a name to these things that I was experiencing and feeling. And it wasn't just that I was just lazy. My mother and I don't have a great relationship. I experienced sexual trauma as a young child. And so when I came back home, it's almost like all of these things were revisited. And so the chaos that I experienced as a child, it's almost like it was waiting for me to come back. And so I was just experiencing a lot of negativity and toxicity with being in my home again. I ended up leaving or having to leave and I started living out of my car for like, three months.
I ended up having like a mental breakdown, I ended up being admitted to the hospital. And being in the hospital for a month in the psych ward, seeing several psychologists, everyone trying to help me put the pieces back together. And so with that, they had resources that I wasn't aware of. That helped me find housing. First, they helped me find transitional housing, where it's like a shelter, but it's not a group shelter. It's like apartment size. And you share through like three bedrooms, and you share like the common spaces like the bathroom and the kitchen. And like the living room area, but you had your own room, locked room, your own space, so I stayed there for like six months, while I was there, they were able to help me find an apartment. And that is how I ended up here in the Bronx.
I had to adjust to finding a new therapist here in the Bronx or in Manhattan. And so the therapist I started seeing was trying to encourage me to get out. Because there were times where I wouldn't leave the house for weeks. And so, she encouraged me to get out more and Sierra Club was having a meeting they were trying to recruit. And so my therapist told me about this meeting and I went and met with Aaron and Leslie, and learned about Sierra Club Military Outdoors.
I was the only one there at the meeting and the first person to join, so I was a twofer.
Amine: Aaron Leonard, who does the military program, he was like, “Hey, you want to come out? We're going out to do a hike, and camping.” And whenever I said something, he was just like, he would make it as easy as possible. It was ridiculous how easy he made it. And so when the time comes I went and he was like, what do you have? Do you have this? You have that? Do you have hiking gear? And I said, No, I don't have that. He said, I’ll give you a jacket. You have a tent? I'll give you a tent. Sleeping bag? I got the food. He made it super easy to do, you just kind of felt guilty not showing up. And so I just showed up.
Narration: We’ll be right back.
AD 2: This episode was brought to life with support from the Sierra Club. Sierra Club Military Outdoors envisions a world where all veterans are encouraged to spend time in nature and have ample opportunities to do so. Military Outdoors is teaming up with the YMCA to make that vision a reality. They’re working to improve the lives of veterans, members of the military, and their families through connections with the outdoors and to inspire them to become champions for environmental conservation and justice within their communities. Due to the ongoing pandemic, they’re launching an Adventure From Home outings program. So, if you’re serving or have served or are a family member of someone who has and you live in the Detroit, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, or San Antonio areas, reach out to your local YMCA for more information. Self-care and community care are more important than ever right now, so definitely look into these resources and spend some time outdoors in your community!
Narration: And we’re back.
Charm: That was the first outing I went to at Harriman State Park. We were out there for like three days. So we camped out, they provided tents. And so we all slept in our individual tents. And we had campfire. We had yoga in the morning. We play games. It was probably the first time I was out of my house for more than, more than three hours. So from three hours to three days.
[MUSIC ON- Fun/upbeat]
we were around the campfire and we were actually making s'mores. And we just heard this rattling noise and then everyone just kind of like screamed and took off running. Me however, I was like, it's just a raccoon and I'm going over to it like, “Well, hello!” I'm having a conversation with a raccoon. We weren't expecting that. And I wasn't expecting myself to just not run. not run away. Yeah, usually I'd be the first to run. But this time I was like, it's just a raccoon!
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The camp site, there were like barbecue pits, there was an outdoor sink. I've never seen an outdoor sink. Like I volunteered to do dishes, just so that I could experience the outdoor sink. I've never seen one. And then where it was positioned, it was just like the scenery, like with the scenery like that I will do dishes every day. You know. Growing up, I hated doing dishes. But if I had an outdoor sink, I probably would enjoy dishes more.
Amine: I remember Aaron just kind of sending me on more challenging things telling me to be in charge of something or giving me a response like, why don't you help him build the fire? Why don't you do this and so I felt very engaged. And that kind of helped me rebuild my confidence. And just there's a calmness that comes with when you're staying in the forest. And just being able to say, I know, it sounds very funny to people who hike all the time, but to survive sleeping in the forest, for a night or two nights or three nights and nothing actually happens to you because you know exactly what to do, how to drink water, how to cook your food, how to pack your food. And just falling asleep, being able to fall asleep, that was like a huge accomplishment. And that kind of moved me along as time went on.
Narration: Speaking of sleep actually, that very first night Amine went camping, it took awhile for him to fall asleep. He was terrified, convinced that the person at the campsite next to their group was going to harm him.
Amine:I realized that that person, what was different about that person, which kind of made me very, very scared for my life is that he looked very much like the soldiers that was when he was very fit, extremely fit. Like, close-cropped hair. And subconsciously I was not aware that that's what he reminded me of. But that kind of took me to a certain zone that made me not able to sleep. Those are the things that even back then, when I started going to Military Outdoors, I was not aware it was PTSD.
Even though you may be in a much safer environment, in a much more happier place, and you're much more able to defend yourself, and so on so forth. Going back in time, especially like it's a subconscious thing, at least it was for me during that event, that you are just feeling helpless in some ways.
Charm: I was experiencing a lot of pain. I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia. And so I was always feeling pain. So I was a little skeptical about the hiking. In my head, I was telling myself, I'm not gonna be able to do this. But just the environment itself and the people that I was with, they were just all encouraging. Leslie was like, we’re gonna go at your pace, there's no race. You know? And so, I ended up hiking, we hiked, I want to say about three miles. And yeah, I end up doing that it was the first in a while of physical activity. Growing up, I used to run, I used to run a lot, I used to run track. In the military, I used to run a lot. And then I started having these pains. And then I'm not able to run, to be as physical. And that was part of my depression, too. I know that now. I felt like I was losing myself. I had lost myself. And so going to this outing, and being in that environment, and being around people that are encouraging. It just kind of made me realize that, all is not lost. I was really emotional at the end. Because again, it was the first time I was out of my house. I hadn’t gotten out. I was just, kind of like in prison in my room. Sometimes it was too much just to go to the kitchen, or to the bathroom. So, to go from being confined in my bedroom to spending three days with people I don’t even know. And then leaving like I had a world of friends and just this huge village encouraging me to have hope and not give up. So, I kept going back.
Amine: As a veteran, as someone who has experienced this, you're still having a big chunk of your life that is not shared. So you're not being phony, per se, but you're not being your whole self. And also you act in a certain way that people just like, “what's wrong with that guy?” or something just comes off, like, very off. I remember telling my girlfriend back then, Don't ever call me in the morning. And it took me a while to explain to her why she should never call me in the morning. Because I don't sleep well. I haven't slept well since I came. Sometimes I awake in the middle of the night. And you just have very bad nightmares. And you don't catch sleep until the wee hours of the morning. So you try to get as much as possible. So there are certain things in which you are not yourself, you're not able to present your whole self to other people. What happens when you go to the military outdoors program is that these people, you can present to them the good, the bad, and the ugly, and the people they are not unsure about because they've already also gone through it. And so you are being your whole self. So when you have those kinds of community or that type of networking is a much richer experience. Whatever weight you're carrying on your shoulders, kind of gets to be put down a lot more for a longer period and it is around other people, even though those are the people you care about even those who may be related to you. You are not able to share or experience because even certain things you're not sure you're not sure that you actually you're not sure that you are entitled to certain feelings.
So community is very valuable. Also being networked into that community, the network that you build. I mean, I felt like I had more places to go after going to the Sierra military club. Not only the people that I met, were like, “hey, call me anytime.” Or, there's events going on here and there. But also, like the city became a much more open place. Like, oh, I can actually just take the train, go up and go hiking for a day and come back up. I don't have to, I don't have to travel like for three hours or two hours. Your point of view, or your horizons kind of open up wider, since you participate in this program, for sure.
Charm: Leslie, actually, because of the pandemic, she decided to invite us to go out and experience nature for ourselves, take pictures, do some recording. And then we would come back, like in five days and share that experience. Well, not that I'm Teacher's pet or anything. But I was the only one. I was the only one who really, like, took pictures, and I recorded it. And I loved it. I've been doing this all along. I mean, Now, of course, it took away from my walking. Because I speed walk. Because I was taking pictures. And I was, I would sit and just record what I saw, or, you know, what I felt or where I was, and then replay all that for myself because of course, I had to do my own editing. I was like, Why haven't I thought of this? Why haven't I done this? and so I started doing that on the weekends, on my longer walks.
Amine: actually my family has become outdoorsy. I was a big catalyst to that, at least with my parents. And then it has become a family activity that is now done once in a while or when someone wants to do it. But it's become very normalized inside my family. And then going out for a hike by the river is something that's very normal.
Narration: Just this past year, in 2020, Sierra Club Military Outdoors was instrumental in the passage of two bipartisan acts aimed at breaking down barriers to accessing public lands for veterans: New York state’s Outdoor Rx Act and the Accelerating Veterans Recovery Outdoors Act, which is part of a package of bills addressing healthcare and suicide prevention for veterans. These landmark pieces of legislation are the first steps towards normalizing time spent outdoors as an adjunct therapy for veterans and, in turn, all people; recognizing the connection between access to nature and public health.
Charm: I don't know where I would be had I not gone on that camping trip, I don't know that we would be having this conversation. Because I was in a dark place. So even if I can’t get out and walk, I can sit on the bench outside and just be or if I have an appointment at VA, instead of just going straight home, I can walk over by the dock, and just sit. And I found myself taking pictures, just because I wanted to. I felt like I needed to record these moments. For the times when I don't feel my best that it would remind me of the times where I felt like my best. Again, it's been healing. It's been my healing. I don't know that I can survive without it.
It was a group of women that, they were just being themselves. And it just allowed me to just be myself. And in that, I learned that I have a little sense of humor. And I like to laugh and I like to see people laughing. I'm playful. It definitely helped me to tap into my inner self. The self that I know that is there. But sometimes it's shy and reserved. But yeah, it allowed me to kind of revisit Charmaine, again.
[OUTRO]: A million words of gratitude to Charm and Amine for sharing their stories with me and the Outside Voices community. That’s all of y’all! Thank you, thank you for listening.
Our beautiful logo and cover art was designed by Brooklyn Bell and this lovely music you hear at the beginning and end of every episode was performed by Olivia VanDamme and produced by Jamison Blue Stegmaier
All credits, links and resources can be found on our website: outsidevoicespodcast.com
You can also follow us on Instagram, @OutsideVoicesPodcast
Outside Voices Podcast is a project by Resource Media. This episode was brought to life thanks to our partnership with the Sierra Club.
Until next time.
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