Episode 4: Dr. Cristal Cisneros (she/her/ella)

AD: Belonging is a four-part Outside Voices mini-series created in partnership with Merrell. Merrell believes in sharing the simple power of being outside. They provide innovative, thoughtfully designed footwear and apparel products that enable anybody to pick up their gear and feel adventurous, confident, and ready to enjoy the outdoors.

Cristal: You know, before and before it was trendy to be organic farm to table like, we were doing this out of necessity. We were poor, there was my dad was the primary breadwinner. Um, you know, there was us 10 kids, my mom was a stay at home mom. And so we relied on this food. And before it was trendy, like I said, we had chickens, we had goats, we had pigs, and we harvest our, the animals and the eggs. 

[INTRO] Sarah: You’re listening to Outside Voices Podcast. We’re using our Outside Voices to redefine what it means to spend time outside and connect to nature. I’m your host, Sarah Shimazaki. Let’s get started.

Sarah-Narration: Alright, here we are with our final episode, number 4, of our four-part mini-series “Belonging”. If you’ve been tuning in or binging, you already know that “Belonging” features four individuals who identify as immigrants or first-generation, and shares stories about their personal and cultural connections to the outdoors. We released  this mini-series during the first week of July, around the federal holidays Canada Day and American Independence Day to challenge and redefine notions of what it means to be “outdoorsy,” or “American,” or “Canadian” and to celebrate EVERYONE’S right to find belonging outside. And with that, I’ll let our last, but certainly not least guest, introduce herself.

Cristal: I’m Dr. Cristal Cisneros. I use she/her/ella pronouns, and I'm here in Denver, Colorado on the traditional Land of the Ute, Cheyenne, Arapaho Indigenous populations.

Sarah-Narration: Ok so, before we dive into Cristal’s stories, I do want to give her a huge shoutout, this girl just recently (as in a few months ago) graduated with her doctorate in education focusing on environmental racism and its impact on students of color. She is already doing incredible work with the City of Denver, but let’s rewind to where it all began, back in Gary, Indiana, where Cristal grew up.

Cristal:  I think the biggest memory, the fondest memory I have is taking naps outside with my Abuelo. My grandpa, on my dad's side, he would come visit us here in the States. And he just loved being outside. My parents house, they have a lot of trees and just like sunshine, a beautiful backyard. And he would just take a blanket and lay there. And I remember being, you know, 5, 6, 7 and just seeing him and being like, “What is he doing?” And then he would always invite me to take a nap. And so I would go with him, lay in the sunshine and just feel that warmth on my face. And it's so funny because so many people are like, I need complete darkness to fall asleep. And I'm the opposite. I love taking naps in the sun. I think because of that early memory. I love taking naps outside again because of that early memory and light for me, it does not bother me one bit, I go to sleep.

My dad is from Via San Vicente. And there, it's pretty rural in Mexico. And so my dad always, you know, his family gardened, were stewards of the land and grew their own food. So when my dad migrated here to the States, that was something that was, one, I'm one of 10. So it was not only like sustainable to feed all, you know, 10 of us kids, plus my mom and dad, a family of 12. But it was also just a practice that generationally he grew up with and passed down to us. So that was another huge, probably the most profound moment of why I became an environmentalist and activist, a lover of outdoors, was spending time gardening with my dad. We had about, I would say, maybe half an acre of just this random plot of land, not near our house near my uncle's house. And my uncle would be like, yeah, you all can use it to make food, you know, plant vegetables and fruits. So my siblings and I every summer, we would spend almost every single day after my dad got out of work, and then on the weekends, planting this garden, so it was huge. This wasn't just like a little outdoor garden, it was a half an acre garden and we grew tomato, jalapeno, you know cebolla, which is onion, squash. I mean, we always had all these gourds and pumpkins. And so not only was it just this beautiful experience outdoors, we also sold some of our extra produce on the side of the road like corn. Like I said, we had a lot of gourds and pumpkin, so we would always sell those two. So that I think, was probably the most impactful outdoor experience when I was young. Because it was just like being that little barefoot, like digging in the dirt and seeing the fruits of your labor and this beautiful like tomato off of a vine that you just take a bite into when it's summer is just an experience that was incredible. Life changing for sure.

there was a one day my sister, her name is Rosio, she really really wanted to go. I don't know, I think with like my cousin or with my mom somewhere. My dad said no, we're going to go to the garden. And so she was mad. And he was like, Okay, well, if you all finish planting these seeds, then we can go home early. So what she did is she dug this huge hole, and she buried the entire sack of seeds into the hole and covered it up. It's like, you know, mind you, we were, I was probably eight. So she was probably 10. So she tells my dad, she's like, okay, we're finished, we planted all of these seeds. And so my dad goes to check. And he would just like, he always wore like a hat. And he grabs his hat and he throws it down, like in the distance. And he comes to us and he's like, you did not plant these seeds, because he you know, created like a, he dug a whole entire line for us to plant the seeds and spaced them out. And so he was so mad. So instead of doing it right the first time, we had to undig the wholehole, get all of the seeds out, go back and plant them one by one while he, you know, watched us so it took us longer than it should have. So that's always a fun memory. You know, and I equate that to my life and just like, just do something right the first time instead of trying to find the shortcut, then having to backtrack and undig the seeds and replant them. I'm just thinking about how to be strategic now.

Sarah-Narration: Thanks to Cristal’s experiences outside in the garden with her family, she’s cultivated a strong relationship with food and the land.  

Cristal: You know, before it was trendy to be organic, farm to table like, we were doing this out of necessity. We were poor, my dad was the primary breadwinner. you know, there was us 10 kids, my mom was a stay at home mom. And so we relied on this food. And before it was trendy, like I said, we had chickens,  , we had pigs, and we harvested the animals and the eggs. And so for me, I like to eat organic because I taste a difference in the food. And I love going to farmers markets again, because I can just feel the love. So it's just that strong connection of having this reciprocal, this beautiful bond and relationship with the land. And when you nurture it, and when you take care of it and you enjoy it, like you truly benefit and you have this like a bountiful nourishment that the land offers you. So I think that's something that I've been reflecting on is just how, culturally and traditionally, my family has always harvested the earth. And so they were able to pass down those practices of, you know, that relationship with food and the relationship with gardening, and how it has made me become more aware of like what I'm putting into my body, and how I'm nourishing my body, and how I'm nourishing like nature, and how that reciprocal relationship of me nourishing nature nourishes my body. And it's just, it's awesome. 

So yeah, and then thinking about culturally decolonizing my diet and where my ancestors are from, and where my family is from in Mexico, you know, thinking about how food played such a vital role in their sustainability, their everyday life. So taking more of an approach of “Am I putting more nopales, which are like cactus, in my diet?” And yeah, just really thinking about that relationship with decolonizing my own diet. Again, because of how I grew up, like I grew up on greens, we ate a lot of vegetables that my dad would grow. And those are all native or traditional foods that my ancestors ate. So that's always fun.

Sarah-Narration: I love all these incredible stories from Cristal’s childhood, of really feeling a two-way reciprocal relationship with the earth. I was curious, especially now that she lives in Denver, Colorado, where there is a very different culture around what it means to be quote unquote outdoorsy (and we’ll get into that), how that relationship has evolved. 

Cristal: at home in Gary, Indiana, which I wouldn't say there's a huge outdoor recreation presence. it's still the Midwest. We really didn't camp, my family didn't camp. But I remember like sixth grade, we went to camp Tecumseh, which was more in like middle Central Indiana. And I remember camping there, but it was in a lodge, or like in a cabin. So in terms of outdoorsy, like, I really didn't know what rock climbing was, I knew skiing only because of like pictures and things that I would see on TV. I knew of kayaking, same way. We never engaged in that type of outdoor recreation as a family, so I never thought of myself as an outdoorsy person. So then when I went to college, and I actually studied biology, and I wanted to be a botanist, and I started to learn more about outdoor recreation. And so I was like, oh, I've never been, you know, stand up paddleboarding. I want to try that or I've never done woods camping in a tent, I want to try that. And so I think that was a culture shock. For me, thinking of how I grew up, again, in a traditional sense, and in a very small narrative of what outdoorsy, I would have never considered myself outdoorsy.

So that was really hard, because I had to navigate this love for nature, love for being outside. But then also, in a sense, this imposter syndrome of, but I'm not outdoorsy, I'm not rock climbing. I'm not going skiing. I'm not going kayaking, I'm not mountain biking. So do I really fit into this space?  And so that was hard. and then I went through a period of trying to make it fit. So I would go hiking. And, you know, I had to, like, take my picture. Just that whole facade of what it meant to be outdoorsy, I think, was starting to consume my image of myself. And so it was really hard to step back and be like, I'm not, because I hated it, right? I hated like, being hot, outside, and like being tired and just, you know, pushing myself to limits that made the outdoors, not fun. So this is like two years ago, I'm not even gonna lie, like, two years ago, where I reclaimed and redefined what outdoors he was for me. And it was honestly, when I was getting my master's, I was doing a project where my action research was, how do people of color in Denver engage with outdoor activities? And again, you know, I had this narrative of what outdoor activities meant, so I wanted to see how people of color in Denver were doing it. And that's where that shift happened. I started to see a lot of people of color, specifically the population that I was working with, had small children. They were just like going to the park. They were outside in their trampoline, they had a little family garden, and it brought back all of these, Oh, my gosh, this is what I was doing when I was at home. And then I thought of myself, as you know, I'm seeing them as a deficit. Because of these institutions that have sold me this outdoor narrative. That's very untrue, of what it means to be outdoorsy. And so then I started to reclaim my space, right?

Two years ago is when I really started to reclaim and redefine what outdoorsy was. And I love just being outside with my dogs, we go for walks, we have this 420 acre off leash dog park, it's really flat, but I'm there almost every single day. And that's outdoorsy, you know, I am outdoorsy, I might not be hiking fourteeners or what is it mountaineering or rock climbing, but I'm still active, and I'm still outdoors, and that's okay. And, and also, like, I love my nails to be done. I don't want to rock climb, because I like wearing acrylic nail. I like having long nails. So, until I figure out and navigate how to climb with acrylic nails or you know, my manicure, then I'll start to revisit that. But that's been my journey, it's been a lot of trying to fit into molds, and then realizing that those molds weren't made for me, or that they don't bring me joy. And so finally being content with me taking Ghosty and Canelo to the off leash dog park, that is just a huge trail system is super meaningful. And so is being outside in my garden. 

it should bring you joy, you know, if mountaineering brings you joy, you do that. if skiing every weekend brings you joy, that's amazing, find what brings you joy when it comes to being outdoors and in nature and like, that should be the things that we're celebrating. And that should be the thing that we are continuing the narrative about. And even within my family, it's very different. My Instagram handle is Xicana afuera, which Xiicana for some people who don't know, is like someone who is of Mexican descent, but was born here in the States. And, you know, my mom, she's like, yo no soy una mama afuera, you know, like playing off of my Xicana Afuera Instagram handle, like she's not an outside mom. and that's okay, you know, for a long time, I think I had a deficit of, “my mom doesn't camp, my mom doesn't do outdoorsy things.” And again, I had a negative view of that, and a negative connotation of like, she's not outdoorsy and she should be because I love the outdoors. And so that was something that I had to grapple with too, is she has her own story of being in outdoor spaces. And so respecting that space that the outdoors to her is not something she finds joy in, in her own right because of her own story. So that's something that I had to grapple with too is like, my family's relationship to nature is different than my relationship to nature. 

Sarah-Narration: So the theme of our mini-series is belonging, right? As I mentioned before, the word Belonging can hold so much meaning, Here’s what Cristal had to say.

Cristal: I don't want to lie and say that it's something that comes easy. there's going to be a lot of things, as a woman as a first gen as you know, someone who identifies as Chicana. Belonging, trying to belong in spaces that aren’t built for you is hard. And grappling with being comfortable belonging in your own right in your own way is hard. You're gonna have these moments of, Do I even belong here? Am I even supported in belonging here? And so I think it's, it's a belonging, if I could describe it, is a journey. And it's until you are content in the spaces that you belong or you feel that you belong. I think that's the most important thing. To reckon with. Does this meet your definition of belonging? And if so, then you belong? Because even within the outdoor spaces, you know, there's, there's times as a woman, I feel like I don't belong. There's times as a, you know, a woman of color. I feel like I don't belong in academia. Oh, lordy, there's plenty of times where I felt like I didn't belong. So it's a hard journey of belonging, but if it brings you joy, you belong there. 

Sarah-Narration: If it brings you joy, you belong there. I love it. That’s the motto, right there. A few months ago, Cristal got to introduce her dad to a quote unquote outdoorsy activity he had never done before. 

Cristal: My dad's 72. He's from Mexico, he has never been skiing, because of finances because he's worked, he had a supportive family of 12. when he comes to visit, I always like to either take him hiking and see these things that he unfortunately never had access to. So when we went skiing, you know, he thought, because he's very active. He rides his bike every day, he goes, walks around, there's like this little lake near my parents house. He's always outside in his garden to this day. And so he thought he was a spring chicken, that he could totally just get on skis and do his thing. So it was really, you know, like, put your skis on, but don't move, follow my every move, like, be careful. Like, I felt like a mama bird. You know, like, don't don't do that you're gonna fall and break your hip or like, don't do XY and Z. He only stayed on the bunny hills. But it was just really cool for him, for him and I to share that experience of, you know, he's never done this, he has only seen it in videos or associated with like, a rich person's activity. So being able to offer him, you know, again, as a first generation, like, I wish I could give my parents a brand new house, I wish I could pay off their debt. I wish I could do so much for them. This is making me emotional, but like, being able to provide more of those, like, life opportunities is so meaningful, especially as a first gen like seeing my dad's first time on the ski slopes is so just like I don't even know how to describe it. I don't, but it's when I get down on myself like, Oh, we’re not super rich and providing my family with a house or, you know, X, Y and Z. I have to remember that I am providing experiences that they've never had. 

[OUTRO]

Thank you Cristal, for the wonderful stories, shoutout to your family of 12, and congratulations again on your doctorate. Thank you everyone for listening to our mini-series! It’s been fun, yeah?

Our beautiful logo and cover art was designed by Brooklyn Bell and this lovely music you hear at the beginning and end of every episode was performed by Olivia VanDamme and produced by Jamison Blue Stegmaier

All credits, links and resources can be found on our website: outsidevoicespodcast.com

You can also follow us on Instagram, @OutsideVoicesPodcast

Outside Voices Podcast is a project by Resource Media. Belonging is a mini-series made in partnership with Merrell.

Until next time. 

AD: Special thanks again, to our friends at Merrell, for partnering with us on Belonging, a mini-series featuring immigrants and their relationships to the outdoors. Merrell believes that no matter who you are, where you come from, who you love or how you move — Everyone should be welcome in the outdoors and wherever life takes us.